A question in English about CO2, Nitrate, Phosphate and GH

[Martin]

Hi everyone,

My wife made me aware of these forums and although my Finnish is almost non-existent (I'm from the Netherlands), I hope that I could get some answers to a couple of questions that I have.

I am the owner of two planted aquariums, one of which has now been running with pressurized CO2 for the past half year. I bought the CO2 cylinder back in july last year and it is now about empty and needs refilling. I was wondering which places would be best to have this done? I live in Vantaa, close to Myyrmäki.

Furthermore, the tank sucks up nutrients like there is no tomorrow, I'm fertilizing with KNO3, K2PO4 and micros. The KNO3 and K2PO4 I ordered through my work from Sigma, and that turned out to be terribly expensive. I've read on American forums that they can get that stuff over there for about 5$ per pound, I paid 30€ for 100 grams of K2PO4. I'm sure there must be a cheaper solution here in Finland. Where do you all get your fertilizers?

Then a final question, I called Vantaan Vesi to ask about the water composition, but unfortunately noone there spoke really good english and I did not get a very conclusive answer. Does anyone know the values of the following in water from Vantaa:

Nitrates:
Phosphates:
KH:
GH:

My warmest thanks in advance for any answers
Best,
Martin

PS: I thought I'd add a photo of my large tank (240 liters), here it is:

[wallu_1]

I found from homepage of Vantaa city only these results.
pH 7,6-8,0 and dGH 3,4.

[mirkomiz]

Hello

Nice tank you have This "finnish" cheap and much more better plantfertilizer (liquid) is called PMDD, maybe someone who knows better about it can tell more...but if you are able you can try to search (in finnish "haku") information about it

[Kaizu]

This "finnish" cheap and much more better plantfertilizer (liquid) is called PMDD, maybe someone who knows better about it can tell more...

I wouldn't say "better"... It is just more simple for everyday aquarists, some people have tried with Tom Barr's "Estimative index" -method.

KH2PO4 seems to be hard to find in small amounts, but maybe a group of people might order a bigger amount and split it, or maybe Satek could take it to their list...

PS. Here it's sold by 105,78 € per 250 grams, and with 24x250g the price is 80,49 € per 250 grams. Not so cheap . And in Estonia 500g costs 385 EEK (under 25 €).

[Malla]

Hi Martin and welcome to the Forum!

The formula for PMDD can be found from the Internet also in English. I'm sure you are familiar with the subtance, but you can purchase the ingrendients or ready made stuff for example from Suomen Akvaariotekniikka Internet shop.

I can quarantee that if you send them e-mail (myynti [at] akvaariotekniikka.fi) to obtain further details, you will get excellent service in English from "skare"

Nice tank by the way

Br, Malla

[Martin]

Thanks for the replies so far! the online shop looks very promising, though they do not seem to have any phosphates for sale. My fertilizing program is based on Tom Barrs estimative index, it seems to work really well, but getting the chemicals has been a bit of a pain.

there is an online shop in the USA that ships across the world (www.gregwatson.com), and their prices are considerably lower, but the shipping adds quite a bit... if nothing else, I'll get it from there.

Anyone know about refilling stations for the CO2 bottle?

[Akvaariomikko]

Anyone know about refilling stations for the CO2 bottle?

Basically all companies that maintain fire extinguishers should have the capability of filling CO² bottles. Contact Kidde (in Petikko ca. 4 km from Myyrmäki) and ask them. I have filled my bottle in Palosammutinhuolto-PSH Oy in Helsinki (Tattarisuo workshop area near Malmi airfield).

[pieni ja isompi akvaario]

Hi Martin,

try to find all your aquarium stuff from Europe or from Finland.
Tax fees from USA orders will raise prices quite a bit.
If you need any help with orders from finnish online shops, I´ll bet someone here will help you with translation...


- AJ -

[rain-]

Hi Martin and welcome to the forum! You have such a beautiful tank!

It really is difficult to get KH2PO4 from Finland since there is just a couple of hobbyists adding phosphates to their tanks (most of the people just add micros), but I hope it's going to change soon after more people get interested in EI.

I myself bought my KH2PO4 from Greg Watson, but before that I used Seachem Phosphorus which is a really, really expensive way to add phosphates. Luckily you can get dry KNO3 from other hobbyists and as a premixed solution from akvaariotekniikka.fi.

The PMDD mix is the cheapest way to get micros, you can get it from akvaariotekniikka and from other hobbyists. And as Malla said before, you can contact akvaariotekniikka.fi in English so they will be able to help you to figure out what you need. I myself use Seachem Flourish, Tropica MasterGrow and self mixed PMDD as my micro ferts.

Oh, and about "Finnish" PMDD (as we know, it isn't a Finnish invention, it was invented by misters Conlin and Sears and I think they are from USA). Here in Finland we use only the micro fert and Mg+K part of the PMDD so there's no nitrates in the PMDD mixes.

[RPekka]

Here in Finland we use only the micro fert and Mg+K part of the PMDD so there's no nitrates in the PMDD mixes.

But if one uses KNO3 to raise nitrate levels in solution there no need to add any extra sodium (K) salt because KNO3 already has plenty of sodium in it.

[rain-]

Depends on how much KNO3 you are adding. And well, there is K in KH2PO4 too. But you need to calculate how much you are actually adding potassium then to know if you are adding enough. The recommended levels by EI are:

NO3 range 5-30ppm
K+ range 10-30ppm
PO4 range 1.0-3.0 ppm

And I was talking about the premixed PMDD that imitates Tropica Master Grow. Of course you can add just micros without K+Mg if you want to, but then it isn't close to Tropica Master Grow anymore. I still add a bit of potassium and magnesium (and calcium) even when there's some in the Tropica Master Grow/PMDD/Seachem Flourish and KH2PO4 and KNO3.

[Martin]

It seems like I I almost created a hot topic

I have a large supply of micros. so for now I have no need to get the PPMD. But with my last order I only got 100 grams of K2PO4. There is still enough for about half a year to a year of dosing, so for now I'm fine as well. When I saw these forums I was just very thrilled to see such an active community of Finnish aquarium keepers. I had no idea so many people here in Finland had aquaria When I saw that I just had to ask these questions that I have been having in the back of my mind for months now.

One of the shops mentioned for refilling CO2 bottles is actually the one where I bought mine about a year ago, I just had lost the address and could not remember the name of the place. Good to have that again.

In any case, thank you all for the replies, they have been most helpful.
Best,
Martin